Full transcript of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Nov. 1, 2026

On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:

Sen. Bernie Sanders, Independent of Vermont
Rep. Mike Lawler, Republican of New York
Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro, a Democrat
David Becker, CBS News election law contributor and the executive director of the Center for Election Innovation and Research
Anthony Salvanto, CBS News executive director of elections and surveys

Click here to browse full transcripts from 2026 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”

MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.

And this week on Face the Nation: It’s down to the wire when it comes to the midterms. And the campaigner in chief is making one final trip to the heartland to get his party to the polls.

In this last weekend before Election Day, it’s time for the final campaign push.

(Begin VT)

STATE REPRESENTATIVE JAMES TALARICO (D-Texas) (Senatorial Candidate): We have an affordability crisis because we have a corruption crisis.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: The final attack.

(Begin VT)

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R-Ohio Gubernatorial Candidate): It is now or never. For the future of the United States, for the future of Ohio. It is communism versus common sense.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And the finishing touches on those closing arguments.

(Begin VT)

ABDUL EL-SAYED (D-Michigan Senatorial Candidate): It shouldn’t be this hard to afford a bag of groceries. Shouldn’t be this hard.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Even President Trump is pushing ahead despite the wear and tear.

(Begin VT)

DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): Twenty-eight days in a row of this crap is a lot. It’s a lot.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: He’s held dozens of in-person and tele-rallies just in the month of October alone. More than 52 million votes have already been cast, but there are tens of millions still out there.

And Mr. Trump’s taking a positive tone when it comes to Republican prospects.

(Begin VT)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I think we’re going to surprise a lot of people. You know why? Because of the rallies. Those rallies are hot.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: But other Republicans are not so sure.

(Begin VT)

SENATOR TED CRUZ (R-Texas): We could lose Texas, and, by the way, not just the Senate race. We could lose every single statewide race in Texas. That’s how close these numbers are.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will talk with Vermont independent Senator Bernie Sanders, New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler, and a look at what’s ahead with Pennsylvania Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro.

It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.

Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.

We are just hours away from voters in 50 states going to the polls for an election that could shift the balance of power here in Washington.

We begin with someone who has been on the campaign trail quite a bit, although he is not up for reelection. That’s Vermont independent Senator Bernie Sanders, who joins us from Burlington.

Good morning to you, Senator.

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS (I-Vermont): Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I have been told you’ve hosted tele-rallies, town halls for Maine and Michigan this weekend, Troy Jackson, Abdul El-Sayed. You’re focused as well on Florida and Minnesota. Why Florida, since it is likely GOP according to CBS numbers, and CBS also rates Minnesota as likely Dem. Why focus there?

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Well, I don’t take anything for granted. I think Angie Nixon in Florida is running a great grassroots campaign. She pulled off a huge upset in the Democratic primary.

I think she has a real chance to win the general election. She is mobilizing working-class people all over this country, and she’s talking about the right issues. And those issues are true in Minnesota. They’re true in Florida. They’re true in Vermont.

People are disgusted and frustrated with an economy in which the billionaires have never ever had it so good. Elon Musk now owns more wealth alone than the bottom 53 percent of American households, while millions of people today are struggling to put food on the table, pay for – you know, pay to fill up their gas tanks, pay for rent.

So what Angie is talking about, what Troy is talking about is an economy that works for all. That’s resonating.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, out in Michigan, there appears some inter- Democratic Party squabbles that are ongoing here around the Senate candidate, Abdul El-Sayed.

There was a back-and-forth over the weekend with Congresswoman Haley Stevens. She lost the primary, but she continues to make public her deep misgivings about backing him now, citing concerns about his ads and his views on Israel.

At this point, is the Democratic Party just too divided to pull off a win in Michigan? Is it getting in its own way?

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: No, I think – no, I think the over – you know, Haley Stevens lost a very, very close primary. I can understand being upset about that.

But I think two days before the election, where people all over Michigan understand that this is the most important midterm election perhaps in the history of the United States, because we are taking on the most dangerous president that we’ve ever had, somebody who’s an authoritarian, does not believe in the Constitution or the rule of law, who wants to give massive tax breaks to billionaires, throw 15 million people off their health care, that they had started an illegal, unconstitutional war in Iran.

So, what the people in Michigan understand, sure, we have disagreements with Abdul on this or that issue, but, from what I can see, all over the state people are standing up. They’re going to stand with Abdul, take on somebody who will be nothing more than a rubber stamp for the Trump administration. That’s Mike Rogers.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Just want to clarify there Haley Stevens has been criticizing ads associated and endorsing Abdul El-Sayed that he has said are – are not his ads, but she’s still criticizing him for them.

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Right. But I…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, go ahead.

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Right, and he had nothing to do with those ads.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: But, Margaret, I was in Michigan last week.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: And I got to tell you, if you want to look at ads in Michigan, I have never in my life seen such disgusting, racist, fearmongering ads as those that are taking place in Michigan right now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: They are calling Abdul El-Sayed, who is a medical doctor, they’re calling him a terrorist, a jihadist, really disgusting things. And the – the fact that any Republican would stand behind those horrible ads is a disgrace.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the rhetoric is extraordinary. El-Sayed would be America’s first sitting Muslim senator if he pulls off a win here.

He has been accused, though, of ties to a Sunni Islamist group known as the mother – Muslim Brotherhood. He has distanced himself. He has disavowed it. But I want to play for our viewers something Senator Cruz of Texas warned against El-Sayed being given any access to classified intelligence if he wins. Listen.

(Begin VT)

SENATOR TED CRUZ (R-Texas): And if I am correct that he is a passionate supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, there is a very real risk that Americans will die as a result.

DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): Michigan does not need a senator who’s on the side of the terrorists.

SENATOR BERNIE MORENO (R-Ohio): This character Abdul El-Sayed can be nowhere near Washington D.C.

(BOOING)

SENATOR BERNIE MORENO: Do you think he understands that concept that our rights come from God almighty?

AUDIENCE: No!

SENATOR BERNIE MORENO (R-Ohio): That Jesus came here for our salvation?

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator, do you think that El-Sayed could actually govern if his colleagues in the Senate are this vitriolic?

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: I mean that – I just got to say, what Cruz and Trump and Vance and others are saying is disgusting. It really is.

And, again, I don’t care if you disagree with Abdul. He believes in Medicare for all. He believes in taxing billionaires. Fine, you disagree with him on that, that’s fine. But that level of racism, overt, absolute racism, is frankly disgusting and should appall every decent American.

The fact of the matter is that Abdul is running an extraordinary campaign.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: And I think what you’re going to see is a good victory in Michigan for him. People will rebel against that type of ugliness.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I appreciate your clarity when it comes to racism.

I do want to point out that some Americans hear any criticism of sending aid to Israel and the words that the candidate has used as anti-Jewish hate, and they believe that that’s scapegoating as well. How do you respond to that?

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Well, you know, for me, it’s a little bit personal. I am Jewish. My father’s family was wiped out by Hitler. Antisemitism is an extraordinarily disgusting and dangerous ideology that has killed millions and millions of lives in the last century.

We cannot tolerate antisemitism, period. But the reality is that right now, in Israel, you have a right-wing extremist government led by Netanyahu, who, in my view and the view of many experts, has in fact committed genocide against the Palestinian people.

To be critical of a racist, extremist government in Israel, and to say that American taxpayers should not spend a nickel supporting that government is not antisemitism. It is attacking a right-wing government. And I would say the same about any other government on Earth. It does not reflect the nature of the religion of the people who are in that country.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Got it.

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: So I reject that. You can criticize Netanyahu, and you’re not antisemitic.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Got it.

I want to ask you about the next Congress. Senator Dan Sullivan told CNN today that he will accept the results in the Alaska U.S. Senate race, the certification of which the Justice Department has said it may challenge.

But we’re already hearing from Republican Senator Tim Sheehy of Montana, that there was fraud perpetrated against the people of Alaska, and under no circumstances should Mary Peltola be seated if she wins in a fraudulent manner.

She argues, as you know, she has no knowledge of this Democratic effort to stack the ballot in Alaska from – and to hurt the incumbent, though an aide told “The New York Times” that the candidate did indeed know. Bottom line, what do you expect the Senate to do if she wins? And does all this mess really hurt the Democratic argument that they have a moral high ground on election integrity?

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Yes, frankly, what the Democrats did in Alaska seems to me to be pretty dumb.

But it goes – this is – it’s not illegal. It’s what happens in every election. Right now in Ohio, there is a gentleman who is running, who is, as I understand it, don’t know him, claiming to be a socialist, fine, and Republican super PAC is putting money into his election.

So why in Ohio is a Republican, a right-wing super PAC, funding a socialist? The answer is obviously – obvious. They want to take votes away from Sherrod Brown. Is this a good thing to do? No, it is not a good thing to do. It’s a stupid thing to do.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Should there be an investigation?

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: What’s going on in Alaska is…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, of Alaska?

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: No, that’s the decision – the federal government does not get involved in state elections. And you have a president who, in fact, denied that he lost the election in 2020 against Biden.

For him to be deciding what is a fair election or not is a little bit absurd. People of Alaska can make that decision themselves.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you very much for your time today.

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Republican Congressman Mike Lawler. He joins us today from New York.

You are in this home stretch of campaigning in one of the most closely watched districts this cycle. Leader Jeffries has singled out your district as a top target for Democrats. Where do you see this headed?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER (R-New York): Well, I think we’re going to be victorious on Tuesday night, Margaret.

I have done the work, over the last four years, between my staff and I, we’ve closed over 10,000 constituent cases, brought back over $140 million to the district, passed over two dozen bills, 17 of which have been signed into law. Ask AOC how many she’s had signed into law.

The fact is, I show up, and my constituents know me. And unlike my opponent, who parachuted into this district from Virginia, I own a home here. I pay taxes. I’m raising my family here.

And I think my constituents respect the fact that I have consistently been rated among the most bipartisan and effective members of Congress. I’m the only sitting member of Congress endorsed by a member of the opposing party.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Jared Golden endorsed my reelection just a little over a month ago. And I think people know that I have delivered for them, especially when it comes to the issue of affordability…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well…

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: … delivering the largest tax cut in American history, including lifting the cap on SALT, and leading the housing bill, which will increase supply and bring down prices.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, as you just mentioned, affordability is a top issue for voters, no matter what party they are in. We are seeing the economy growing. We’re still seeing consumers spend.

But, for the last six months, we are seeing that wages are not keeping up with inflation. Republicans campaigned on bringing prices down. Why do you deserve reelection? Why does the party deserve trust when prices have only continued to climb?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Well, as we saw under the prior administration, inflation cumulatively rose 21 percent.

So the baseline price of everything went up. Obviously, with the war in the Middle East, it has caused volatility in the oil markets, which – which has resulted in a – in a spike in inflation. But, as you just pointed out, we saw significant growth in Q3, 3.4 percent.

Over a million private sector jobs have been created over the past year. We are seeing purchasing power rise. But there’s still work to do. And that’s why I have focused extensively on what we can do to bring down prices. Number one, we did deliver the largest tax cut. Number two, we did pass the largest housing bill in 36 years to increase supply and bring down prices and increase access to capital.

Before the end of this Congress…

MARGARET BRENNAN: The president didn’t love that bill.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: … we will finalize a permitting – before the end of Congress, this Congress, we will finalize a permitting reform bill, which will increase domestic supply of energy, which directly impacts the prices of everything from manufacturing to transportation to groceries.

And one of the problems in New York, Margaret…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: … utilities are up 58 percent under Kathy Hochul because they shut down nuclear power, they ban natural gas, they block pipelines.

We are working to rectify that. That will drive down energy prices significantly, which is critical if we’re going to bring down inflation and bring down costs.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Health care is one of the top three issues for voters. You are one of the Republicans who – that tried to secure a short-term extension of those Obamacare subsidies that expired at the end of the year.

In this cycle, many Democrats are promising that, if they win the majority, they will restore some of those lapsed subsidies. Do you support that? Would you work with Democrats to do that?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Oh, absolutely.

Look, I have consistently been rated among the most bipartisan members of Congress. My best friend in Congress is a Democrat, Josh Gottheimer. We led that effort to negotiate a bipartisan extension of the ACA enhanced premium tax credit.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Frankly, Margaret, it was Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer that rejected the bipartisan agreement. They wanted to go for a clean three-year extension with no reforms.

The fact is, since the Affordable Care Act took effect, health insurance premiums are up 150 percent, while insurance company profits are up over 2000 percent. We need to fix the system.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: I am fully committed to addressing the health care costs in this country. It’s the biggest driver of costs facing most Americans, and we need bipartisan solutions to actually deal with it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The OBBB, the Big Beautiful Bill, was projected to have increased the uninsured population in your state by about 860,000 people through 2034. So that tax bill also may have hurt that case. But let me ask you about something else you just…

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Well, respectfully, that’s just – that’s just not an accurate – that’s just not an accurate number at all.

But, moreover, New York spends 80 percent more on Medicaid than the average of the other 49 states.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Even Kathy Hochul admits they have waste, fraud, and abuse in the system with the CDPAP program that went from $10 million to $11 billion in three years.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, that’s the health research group KFF.

Let me ask about something else. Elon Musk’s political action committee has put forward hundreds of thousands of dollars to support you. And your opponent, Cait Conley, has criticized you for your ties to Elon Musk.

She says you’re refusing to legislate on artificial intelligence, or superintelligence, to protect Elon Musk. How do you respond to that allegation?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Well, first of all, Cait Conley is the AI candidate for the AI industry. She’s the one being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by two AI companies that she won’t even tell the voters what she did to earn those contracts.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, what does Elon Musk expect for that support?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Secondarily, I’m leading on this issue – second – wait a minute.

Well, first of all, it’s an outside group, so I have had no communication with anybody that’s spending in this race. Second of all, I’m the one leading on these issues with Josh Gottheimer the Stop Rogue AI Act to set national standards with respect to these rogue agents and bots, and, secondarily, for the frontier models to require mandatory testing.

Third, Cait Conley has violated federal election law by setting up a JFC with the House Super PAC, the House Democrat Super PAC, and she is spending out of that on campaign ads millions of dollars.

And, lastly, Margaret, in the last week, a Democrat super PAC popped up. They have not filed with the FEC, in clear violation of election law, spending millions of dollars saying that I support amnesty for criminal illegal aliens. It is a straight-up lie.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Who is behind that?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: They are trying to drive down Republican turnout.

These are Democrats supporting this. They did this two years ago, and they’re doing it again, American Forge group. This is a straight-up fraud perpetrated on the voters, like they’re doing in Alaska.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: And, frankly, the FBI and the Department of Justice have informed us that they are investigating it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: And it should be investigated.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: They are violating election law. So people should be focused…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: … very clearly on what is actually happening in our elections.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, we did ask the Conley campaign about that, and they told CBS they had nothing to do with the mailers being sent out. But we will ask the Justice Department as well.

Thank you, Congressman Lawler.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: And they didn’t condemn it either. Yes. Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be watching your race, sir.

Back in a moment.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro is running for reelection and stumping for fellow Democrats in the state in the lead-up to Tuesday.

We caught up with him late last week in Phoenixville just outside Philadelphia, and asked about Democrats working with President Trump if the house does change hands.

(Begin VT)

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO (D-Pennsylvania): But there’ll be a check on his corruption, and hopefully have real leverage to roll back the Medicaid cuts, to roll back the SNAP cuts, to make sure that there’s real responsibility and accountability in Washington D.C., something we have not had when Republicans have had a trifecta there.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Homeland Security said that, in this state there are as many as 14,576 noncitizens that could be registered to vote in Pennsylvania. Did they provide information to back up that claim? And what did your own investigation find?

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: Yes, could is the operative word.

As soon as we received that from the federal government, we immediately responded and said, look, if you have information of illegal voters who are on our rolls, we want that information, because we don’t want them casting a ballot here in Pennsylvania.

I’m very serious about it. Look, I’m the former chief law enforcement officer of this commonwealth. I have prosecuted election fraud cases. I don’t want anyone voting who’s not a legal eligible voter.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Did they back that up?

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: And, of course – of course, when we responded to the Trump administration, they provided no backup. So it was a press release designed to get some attention for their false narrative.

Listen, the first appointment I made when I was elected governor was the secretary of state. That’s the person that administers elections here in the state, a Republican named Al Schmidt.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: I chose him, even though I’m a Democrat, because I think the administration of elections should be nonpartisan.

Al Schmidt, in his career of running elections, has done more to root out corruption than anything that’s ever been done in the Trump administration. We take that very, very seriously. And the Trump administration has never provided a shred of evidence to suggest that there are people on our rolls who are ineligible. If they have it, I want it, and we will act on it immediately.

MARGARET BRENNAN: A recent CBS investigation found Pennsylvania was one of the states where Homeland Security has been going door to door. They’ve been knocking on doors and asking about the immigration status of people who live there.

What can you tell us about what DHS has been doing here? And did the administration coordinate with you as governor in any way?

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: No.

And I want to make very, very clearly the Pennsylvania State Police does not do DHS’ work for them, does not do ICE’s work for them. We do not ask immigration status. In fact, when ICE came here and tried to bully their way into building two massive detention centers here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, one in Berks County, one in Schuylkill County, I fought back and won and drove those detention centers out of Pennsylvania.

MARGARET BRENNAN: How many noncitizen voters did you find? Any?

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: Well, what they said was that there were, whatever the number was, over 1,000 people. So we said, great, tell us who they are, so we can check their status. They never told us who they were.

And so it is impossible for us to be able to check the people that they claim to have identified. I will tell you, we’ve got very, very strict guardrails in place, led by Secretary Schmidt, constantly making sure that the people who are on our voter rolls are legal, eligible voters.

And if we find that someone is not, if a mistake was made in a county where someone was registering, as an example, we immediately get on that. We work with prosecutors to ensure that they are not in a position to cast a ballot.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we will have more from our conversation with Governor Shapiro in our next half-hour.

We will be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And just to follow up, we did receive a response from the campaign of candidate Cait Conley to Congressman Lawler’s accusation of election law violations. They were very dismissive.

We will be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to “FACE THE NATION.” We continue our conversation with Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro.

(BEGIN VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you did speak recently with “The Philadelphia Enquirer’s” editorial board and you told them that you think President Trump and his allies are going to try and stop votes from being counted.

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You also said you expect Speaker Johnson to make efforts to delay seating new members if Republicans lose the majority. Why are you raising these concerns now? And do you think at all that you might be undermining faith in the process?

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: Yes. Well, respectfully, I was answering their question as to whether or not I thought the Trump administration would take steps to try and undermine our elections, so just to offer some context to that. And I did issue those answers. And I’ll tell you why. Because I have lived through this before with the Trump administration.

Back in 2020, I was the attorney general and Trump lost the election here in Pennsylvania and tried to undermine the counting of the vote. In fact, he and his enablers sued me 43 different times to try and throw out the votes of certain Pennsylvanians. Heck, even my opponent went to court to throw out the votes of people in Bucks County. I won every single one of those cases, went 43-0. Trump went 0-43.

And so, we are prepared should they try to do that again this time. In fact, we put together a task force more than a year ago when Trump began to hint at the idea that he would once again take that tact. So, we are prepared in the courtroom should they go forward and try and undermine the right to vote.

Now, more recently, we’ve seen further evidence of this president trying to undermine the right to vote in signing that bogus executive order, trying to make it so people here in Pennsylvania, and across America, couldn’t vote by mail.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: I sued him, I won and we protected the right to vote.

So, again, this was, a, in response to a question, and, b, based on a history of dealing with a guy who is constantly trying to undermine the right to vote here in our commonwealth.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I want to ask about you. Brian Fitzpatrick, who represents Bucks County, Republican here in Pennsylvania, describes you as a good man, a friend. He said you’re smart and competent. He said he thinks you’re going to run for president. And Senator Chris Coons, who was just here earlier, of Delaware, said, a Democrat, if you win Pennsylvania, you win the whole presidency. It’s a good argument for you as a candidate. That’s a Republican, that’s a Democrat speculating. Are they wrong to speculate like that?

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: Well, I wouldn’t be focused on speculating. I’d be focused on these midterms. Which is all I’m focused on.

You know, we talked here today not just about my re-election, but the fact that I’m working hard to elect for more Democrats to Congress, to tilt the balance of power, take the gavel away from Mike Johnson.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: Working hard to win a trifecta here in Harrisburg, something that hasn’t been done since 1992. We have some gerrymandered state senate districts but I’m hopeful that we’re going to be able to get that done this time.

MARGARET BRENNAN: If you win re-election in this position now, to be governor, to get everything done you want to get done, do you have to serve the whole term?

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: Well, I’m going to focus on getting done what I pledge to get done here and continuing to listen, see and do and make a lot of good things happen for the people of Pennsylvania as their governor.

MARGARET BRENNAN: People like me are just going to continue to ask you because you’re not directly answering the question.

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: Well, and you want me to ask. And, look, I’m humbled that you would ask that question, I’m humbled by the responses the senator and the representative gave you. But the only thing I’m focused on is here in Pennsylvania winning up and down the ballot.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you – when you spoke to the editorial board recently you said six people were recently charged in the past nine months, they reported as making terroristic threats or ethnic intimidation against you or your family. You’ve said it has – it’s weighed on you.

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What did you mean by that?

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: You know, a year and a half ago my family and I finished celebrating our Passover seder with the community. And, you know, someone broke into the governor’s residence, threw Molotov cocktails throughout the home, destroyed about a third of the residence and was running through the residence with a metal hammer that he said he was going to use to beat me to death when he found me. And he’s behind bars now for the next 50 years.

But since that time, even more people have threatened me and my wife, our family. Threatened us based on how I worship. And it weighs on you, certainly, to know that there are people out there trying to do you harm.

But I would also tell you, it motivates me to keep doing what I do, to not let the bad guys win, to not let those –

MARGARET BRENNAN: But I said – because isn’t it – I mean you look at this campaign right now. Some of the rhetoric in states that now – Ohio, in Michigan, it’s downright hateful.

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: It’s dangerous. It’s dangerous. It’s hateful.

MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you get rid of that? How do you lower that temperature?

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: I think what you do is try and lead by example, as we all here – as we are trying to do here, as I am trying to do here, try and bring back kindness in the face of the cruelty that we see from this president.

I’ve got profound differences from the person I’m running against, from the president, and others. But I don’t think engaging in cruelty is the answer. I think it makes everyone less safe.

But what I was saying in response to your question a moment ago, it weighs on me but it doesn’t control me. In fact, my family and I met before, you know, we decided to run for re-election. And everybody agreed, we can’t let the bad guys win. We’ve got to keep going forward. You’ve got to stand up against the hate and you’ve got to lead by example and you’ve got to try and bring some decency back to this country.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Let’s talk about Pennsylvania. This state is in the midst of one of the worst measles outbreaks the United States has seen in three decades. In this county, a school here had to close for a day earlier this month because of a confirmed case of measles.

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: This is highly transmissible. How do you get this under control?

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: We’ve got five deaths in Pennsylvania, 1,500 people sickened by measles. A disease that was eliminated in the year 2000 in the United States of America. And it’s come roaring back, largely because of vaccine misinformation and disinformation, promoted by quack conspiracy theorist RFK, who Donald Trump has now put in charge of our nation’s healthcare system.

Now here in Pennsylvania, I believe in making sure people have access to the information, that there is vaccines available to them, it is a personal choice if they wish to get it, but what is critically important is that they hear from an actual medical provider, and actual medical expert, not RFK, who can explain that the MMR vaccine, that’s the measles vaccine, is highly effective in the best way to protect yourself against this measles outbreak.

Make no mistake, you can draw a straight line between the nonsense that RFK has been spewing for years and now his work as the leading public health official in this country and people getting sick here in my state and across the country.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: How do we get control of it now is the second part of your question. You do what we’re doing here in the commonwealth, bringing all of our healthcare partners together and working to provide actual medical information to people in our commonwealth and making sure they get access to the vaccine and encouraging them to take it.

Now, here’s some data for you. Typically, our department of health, working with our healthcare partners, would vaccinate around 25,000 people a month. Since the measles outbreak, and my encouragement and Dr. Bogan (ph), our health secretary’s encouragement to get vaccinated, we’re now up to 55,000 vaccines being administered a month. So, Pennsylvanians are doing what we do best, coming together, looking out for our neighbors and trusting science. Something RFK continually tries to undermine.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you classed with the HHS secretary, Kennedy, in September, pretty publicly. You had a back and forth over what happened, what was driving the measles problem in this state. The CDC now recognizes three measles-associated deaths. That’s fewer than the five that your state health department has seen.

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You just accepted CDC help. Do you have any regrets about how you handled this?

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: No. And, respectfully, that’s not accurate. First, RFK denied that anyone died here in Pennsylvania. Literally, poked his finger in the eye of these families here in Pennsylvania –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, he disputed –

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: No, first he said –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Death due to measles or –

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: Respectfully, first he said I fabricated it. First he said I lied about it, which we didn’t. We know these people died. It’s been confirmed, not just by our state health department, but also by independent coroners.

Then, they tried to play games with the number of deaths. And you correctly point out that he’s only acknowledged three of those deaths.

As it relates to working with CDC, we’ve had people embedded hear from CDC in our state department of health before the measles outbreak. And we did accept one additional person that they were asking us to accept.

MARGARET BRENNAN: An intelligence service officer recently.

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: Yes. One person to help with tracking.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: By the way, this isn’t like they’re sending 1,000 people here to vaccinate folks. It was one additional person, and we gladly accepted them. And the CDC had been here for, you know, again, prior to this outbreak.

But the fact that RFK claims that we’re lying about this, he’s doing that because it doesn’t fit his narrative. Remember, he’s the guy who went to Lancaster, the epicenter of this outbreak, and said, you don’t need the vaccine, just take a bunch of chicken soup and you’ll be fine. This guy –

MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re talking about before he was HHS secretary?

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: This guy, he is not qualified to serve as America’s top public health official. He is not a health expert. And he is constantly undermining public health here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and across the country.

He’s unfit to lead. Donald Trump should remove him. And that will help all of us do a better job of beating this disease that was eliminated in the United States back in the year 2000 but has come roaring back, sadly, because of his vaccine misinformation and disinformation campaign.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But do you worry at all that the degree to which this has now become a political fight or the politicization of health will make it that much harder –

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: To be clear –

MARGARET BRENNAN: for you to persuade people to go get the shots that are so essential, as you said?

GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO: Not at all. Not at all. RFK politicize this. RFK is playing games with this. And, in fact, if you look at the work we’re doing here in Pennsylvania, it’s working. We went from vaccinating about 25,000 people a month to over 55,000 people a month, because people trust actual public health experts here in Pennsylvania, not the nonsense that is being spewed by RFK Jr.

(END VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ve reached out to HHS for comment on the governor’s criticisms, but we have not yet received a response.

You can watch the extended interview on our YouTube channel or on facethenation.com.

We’ll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re joined now by our CBS News election law contributor and the executive director of the center for election innovation and research, David Becker.

David, good to have you here.

So, each state, they have their own system, their own timeline for poll closings and for vote counting.

DAVID BECKER: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Some places, early votes are already in. But when will we know results?

DAVID BECKER: Well, we’re going to know results not because of the fact of how fast states are counting. Look, the election officials in every county, in every state, are going to be working all night long trying to get the balance reported out.

The biggest variable is how close the elections are because when you talk to someone like Anthony Salvanto, who will tell you, if it’s really close, they just need more ballots in before they can make a call to say for sure the person in second place can’t come in – can’t win the race.

So, in a lot of states where we haven’t seen close elections before, we’re going to see close elections in all likelihood and it might take days.

A day like – a state like Alaska in particular, where they’re already well behind Eastern Time, they’ve got very remote voting all over the place. They’re going to bring ballots in from all over the place to count them. And if the election’s really close, it could be several days. That’s normal. And everything that’s going on in the election offices all over the country is under observation. There are Republican and Democratic observers at all times watching the ballots counted, watching the mail ballots being opened, et cetera. So, people should know, there’s nothing going on. This is just the normal process and elections might be close. So it might take a few days.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And who are those monitors?

DAVID BECKER: Usually people who are appointed by the parties, either the Democratic or Republican Party representing candidates in many times or campaigns. That’s very normal That’s the way it was in 2020. Even during Covid there were literally thousands upon thousands of monitors and observers all over the place. So, the parties are well represented. They’re seeing everything that’s going on. And as soon as the results come in, and we see them, they’re aware of them.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Let’s talk about Alaska. It is rank choice voting. It’s a little different in that way. This morning on CNN, Republican Dan Sullivan, the incumbent senator, said he will accept the results of the election if he loses.

As we discussed on this program last Sunday with Attorney General Todd Blanche, the Justice Department is seeking to stop certification of a possible Democratic win due to ballot confusion with what “The New York Times” has reported is this Democratic scheme to stack the ballot and accusing – in a confusing way to disadvantage the senator.

Yesterday, just to update everyone, Alaska’s Republican-led state government urged a federal judge to dismiss the lawsuit that the DOJ filed.

DAVID BECKER: That’s right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: They said it was meritless.

DAVID BECKER: That’s right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, doesn’t this need to be settled by a federal judge before Election Day?

DAVID BECKER: It really doesn’t. I mean it would be nice if a federal judge dismisses the DOJ’s lawsuit, as so many courts have across the country in these last-minute lawsuits that have been brought seemingly mainly to create an impression of chaos. They’re failing. But in Alaska in particular, it would be nice if we got a federal court ruling. We might get one.

But Alaska’s courts have ruled on this, including their supreme court.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

DAVID BECKER: They ruled that both Dan Sullivans can be on the ballot. We’ve shown – seen the ballot, you’ve shown the ballot before. It’s pretty clear that the Alaska division of elections, run by the lieutenant governor there, a Republican, has done a really good job of making it as unconfusing as it can be. And with that rank choice voting, if – even if someone still wasn’t sure and they ranked both Dan Sullivans first and second, by the second round all of those votes would go to the – to the – whatever candidate got the most, presumably the incumbent senator.

I’m not surprised Senator Sullivan says he will accept the results. Of course, this is Alaska defending its states sovereignty and its right and authority over elections in the state of Alaska as guaranteed by the United States Constitution. It’s good to see the Republican governor and Republican lieutenant governor there in Alaska defending their sovereignty as strongly as they are.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But even Democrats, as I’ve said before, have said this does look bad. This looks like dirty pool. It looks like they’re playing dirty.

DAVID BECKER: It – there’s dirty pool. Both parties do this. It shouldn’t happen. Right now, in Nevada, there are two candidates named Ford running for governor. We’re not sure what the circumstances of that are. One of them is the major Democratic candidate. We’ve seen Elon Musk bankroll Cornell West’s presidential campaign in 2024. These kinds of things shouldn’t happen. I don’t think there’s any question. But it’s pretty normal politics, unfortunately. And Alaska’s courts and Alaska state law has already ruled on this.

MARGARET BRENNAN: There are other states, California, Washington state, where we’re seeing federal scrutiny.

DAVID BECKER: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What are you monitoring here?

DAVID BECKER: Well, what’s really remarkable is there’s so much last-minute litigation alleging – allegedly non-citizens on the voter lists, alleging problems with the process coming from the DOJ. This Department of Justice has been in power for two – nearly two years. They have had the full power of the federal government to investigate any claims. And as you heard from Governor Shapiro, when they’ve made political statements on this in the press, when they’ve been asked to show their work, they’ve hit the ball. They have not shared information with California, Pennsylvania, other states and now they bring these last-minute lawsuits. And they are being rejected soundly by every court, including by Trump appointed judges in most cases.

I think this is a good sign. I think this is a good sign that the administration is running out of gas here on this effort to sow confusion in the election. And the courts are holding firm. And, most importantly, the election officials are holding firm.

As you and I are talking right now, the last time I checked it was over 53 million ballots already cast all over this country.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.

DAVID BECKER: And we’re going to see – the record, by the way,, in a midterm election is 118 million ballots cast. We are definitely going to get well over half that before the – before Election Day even comes. We might see a record turnout. It looks like that’s highly possible. We’re certainly seeing it in places like Texas where 7.7 million ballots have already been cast as we’re sitting here talking.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.

DAVID BECKER: And their record for a midterm election is 8.375 million total. So, they’re about – they’re just over about 600,000 or so ballots away from their highest turnout ever and we are days before the election, Election Day hasn’t even happened yet. That’s remarkable.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s a fascinating level of participation.

DAVID BECKER: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: David, thank you for breaking it down.

DAVID BECKER: Thank you, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And I know we’ll be talking to you in the days and weeks to come.

We’ll be back in a moment.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: For an Election Day preview, we go now to our elections and survey’s executive director Anthony Salvanto, who joins us from New York.

Anthony, in the Senate I understand that the list of battleground states might be growing in these final days. What are you finding?

ANTHONY SALVANTO: Hey there, Margaret.

Indeed it is because we have added South Carolina to our battleground list. It still leans red, but it might be an early indicator on election night of just how much the Democrats are able to shift this map, specifically into red Republican leaning states, because it closes pretty early in the night. At that same time we’re going to look if they can hold onto Georgia. Democrats hope to flip North Carolina. And we’ll get some other indications, too, out of the tossup in Ohio, where, again, Democrats are looking to flip a state that’s gone Republican of late.

Moving on in the night, we’ll start to look at New Hampshire. Then we’ll get to Michigan. Maine closes then too. But they’ll count a little bit more slowly. And, of course, the big one in Texas, where Democrats are trying to flip a seat that’s voted Republican for generations.

To the point about moving the map into red states. We’re also going to look at places like Iowa, and even Kansas. In this one, which still leans red, but the Democrats may have a shot at it. If I show you, just to give you context, this is a place that voted very easily for Donald Trump. In fact, it has not voted for a Democratic senator since, we can turned the clock all the way back to 1932.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.

ANTHONY SALVANTO: Yes, the board here, we set – we set the time machine all the way back there. But that’s the point is, these are places that have historically voted Republican. The Democrats are trying to get closer there.

But I will note for everyone, one or two points in a pre-election poll, that’s translating into tens of thousands, in some cases hundreds of thousands of votes. So, it’s really going to be whether the Democrats have the turnout operation to get there. That’s going to be a key story on election night.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Tell me about the House. How’s that looking?

ANTHONY SALVANTO: So, Margaret, let me show you where our baseline House estimate stands from our pulling and our model. And that’s been very stable, Democrats on pace for 229 seats. A majority. Maybe historically a narrow one.

At the same time, with our friends at YouGov and VoteHub, we re-ran these models for scenarios to say, what would happen if. The things that have to happen for the Republicans to have a chance to hold the House is, first of all, they’ve got to get more turnout than they’ve been getting. They tell us in the polling that they’re not as likely to turn out as the Democrats are. The early vote is indicating that Democrats have strong turnout as well. That would have to shift to give the Republicans a chance to hold.

At the same time, if these trends continue, and the Democrats get high turnout, including from a lot of young people who say they’re going to vote, and they don’t always do, their numbers could get as high as 237. That’s our Dem high scenario as well. So, you want to think about the range of possibilities in terms of those seats, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Anthony will be part of the broadcast coverage on Tuesday, but you have a special project you’re launching. Tell us about it.

ANTHONY SALVANTO: I do. We call it “The Nerd Show.” And if you like all the data and watching folks break it down in real time, we’re going to deliver it. We’re going to take you behind the scenes with the CBS News data desk and you’ll watch us look at the data and make the projections in real time.

And it’s going to be really high-tech. We’ve got our friends and partners from VoteHub tracking down to the local level. We’ve got our friends in the MIT Election Lab tracking turnout. And we’ve got the folks from Kalshi here. They are our prediction market data sponsor. We’ll be look at what the traders are thinking and doing in real time.

So, if you want the result, you want the numbers, and you want to see us go through it all, tune in.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Anthony Salvanto, you rest up and we will see you all Tuesday.

We want to note that CBS News employees are not allowed to trade or participate in anyway with prediction markets.

And a reminder to our viewers, you can watch “The Nerd Show” Tuesday starting on our CBS News 24/7 streaming network at five p.m. Eastern. Then it will stream on YouTube and on X.

We’ll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Tune into CBS News for complete coverage of the midterm elections on Tuesday Our special “America Decides” broadcast begins at seven p.m. Eastern, and we will be streaming politics all day long on CBS News 24/7.

For “FACE THE NATION,” I’m Margaret Brennan.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)